i've read the walsh trial that indicates the societies stance of ' unity at all costs, even if we're wrong ' but that sounds more like conformity to me.
so how do other religions or movements justify the range of beliefs within their respective movements?
for example, the born again movement, a massive range of beliefs, but they don't insist on conformity.
"Give me liberty, or give me death"
"no lie is of the truth" 1 john 2: 20
"Above all, don't lie to yourself. The man who lies to himself and listens to his own lie comes to a point he cannot distinguish the truth within him, or around him, and so loses respect for himself and others, and having no respect, he ceases to love." Foyoder Dostoyevsky
for any org/corp to survive it needs to reinvent itself continually to cope with everchanging markets, public opinions and trends.
this is bad news for an org that prides itself on worshipping an unchangeable god.
so how does the wt reinvent itself while maintaining a"no variation of the turning of the shadow "..blah blah?.
On spot, Sparrow Down! (I love your title for this thread)
i explained that i had da'd early december, due to many reasons, ie; paedophile cover-ups, doctrine, hypocrisy etc etc....... she said she would keep in touch and we'd meet up in february when we would be visiting her area.
i also asked for her df'd sister to get in touch.. guess what?
not a dicky bird.. i've seen on her facebook page that she she still has some very active witness mates, she obviously wants to stay friendly with.. i feel like i've been hurt all over again by this stupid ass cult that ruins good friendships totally.
My sister (never baptized, but always felt a duty to help jw friends) always went to some jw friends to talk, drop off magazines, visit, "encourage"...
#1. They have not gone to meetings for over 20 years.
#2 They have worldly friends.... on and on...
When she brought up concerns over latest changes, views in "the Borg" what do they say?
"Sounds like you are trying to start your own religion!" (Implying she was apostate)
Deeply implanted reactions are easily aroused.
Brainwashing is effective, it lasts a long time, that is why "they" do it!
i must admit when i was in, the idea i had of an apostate, was an angry bitter person who would picket out side a convention.
i was looking on jwservey and found on the respondents to a servey that 54% were either active members or fading members.
this made me wonder is the organisation underestimating the extent of apostasy.
Konceptual99: Totally happening. Saw it myself. Just like Nazi's or Pharisees...
"Be loyal or be dead"
last night we were discussing the "new light" that was revealed to the gb recently from jehovah.
many of us recall all the co talks and elder parts based on the bible text of how a true servant of jah would not be "inactive or irregular" for years one was required to have at least one hour to be considered a servant of jah.. as the sec in my hall i recall so many times calling up friends to get thier time and hearing them break crying cause they didn't have 60min only about 45min- and they knew that it meant they were not servants of jah.
now with the new light from jw a person with only 14 minutes of time will now be disqualified as being a servant of jah.. it is amazing how many jw will view this arrangement as a "loving provision from jah" instead of realizing that thier service to thier god has been reduced to whether they get 15min or 14 min.
Very true... I feel bad for "older" people. What is left?
"I'd rather have questions that I can't answer, than questions I can't ask (or answers I can't question)"
i know many who were witnesses hate their past, their decisions, their wasted time.. but you know what??
it's not so bad now.
at least we are out, either mentally, physically or both.. and now, we know better!.
Congratulations MTSman!!!
i know many who were witnesses hate their past, their decisions, their wasted time.. but you know what??
it's not so bad now.
at least we are out, either mentally, physically or both.. and now, we know better!.
I agree, exwhyzee.... people need to vent, have support, have proof of reality.
I am grateful people have shared their stories here, it helps a lot!
You are not crazy, as the WT would have you believe, it really did happen.
What the WT does is very, very cold hearted and mean.
I read an article about a man who was locked on a ship, had to devise a plan to escape... from Scientology!!
Other people have missed childhoods & were bitter because of going to Catholic Schools, mean Nuns, pedophile priests.. Then their are the Muslim with many traditions, Chinese people being oppressed, Iran, Korea, Russia, Germany, India... what if we had grown up under these circumstances?
Yes, let's support each other, help each other out of this mess, and live life to the full!!!
cha ching!
i must admit when i was in, the idea i had of an apostate, was an angry bitter person who would picket out side a convention.
i was looking on jwservey and found on the respondents to a servey that 54% were either active members or fading members.
this made me wonder is the organisation underestimating the extent of apostasy.
You must accept error.. or else!
Quote from the "Douglas Walsh" trial:
Another example is the testimony by Hayden C. Covington, a former vice president and lead Watchtower attorney, who stated that Witnesses must accept a “false prophecy” as true.
Prosecutor: |
… A false prophecy was promulgated? |
Answer: |
I agree [to] that. |
Prosecutor: |
It had to be accepted by Jehovah’s Witnesses? |
Answer: |
That is correct. |
Prosecutor: |
If [a] member of Jehovah’s Witnesses took the view himself that that prophecy was wrong and said so he would be disfellowshipped? |
Answer: |
Yes … Our purpose is to have unity. |
Prosecutor: |
Unity at all costs? |
Answer: |
Unity at all costs … |
Prosecutor: |
And unity based upon an enforced acceptance of false prophecy? |
Answer: |
That is conceded to be true. |
Prosecutor: |
And the person who expressed his view … that it was wrong, and was disfellowshipped, would be in breach of the covenant if he was baptized. |
Answer: |
That is correct. |
Prosecutor: |
And as you said yesterday expressly, would be worthy of death … |
Answer: |
I will answer that yes, unhesitatingly. |
Prosecutor: |
Do you call that religion? |
Answer: |
It certainly is. |
Prosecutor: |
Do you call it Christianity? |
Answer: |
I certainly do. |
(Douglas Walsh v. The Right Honorable James Latham Clyde Scottish Court of Sessions, November, 1954, p.347-348, Cross Examination of Fred Franz; also see entire testimony for other examples).
i note that they're making reference to this in the upcoming convention programme.
someone has has dropped a bollock here, have they not?.
i mean, if i were a jw, i'd be sitting thinking of all the promises made and broken.
Thx for your research, Blondie...
Perhaps someone will see the irony, the way they change like a chameleon ....
i note that they're making reference to this in the upcoming convention programme.
someone has has dropped a bollock here, have they not?.
i mean, if i were a jw, i'd be sitting thinking of all the promises made and broken.
This is what con men commonly call the .... "razzle dazzle"
